Deficient Vegans

Sneak More Steps Into Your Day (When You're Stuck at a Desk)

• Muscle Deficient Vegan & Protein Deficient Vegan • Episode 47

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0:00 | 47:55

This week we break down why even regular gym sessions don't fully cancel out a sedentary workday, and share the practical tricks we've actually tried (and which ones stuck) to add 3,000-5,000 steps without restructuring your life. We also discuss our myth of the week which is that animal-based leather is more environmentally friendly than vegan leather.

Meta-analysis discussed in the episode

Chapters
0:06 Welcome to the Podcast
0:40 New News
2:20 Walmart's Legal Trouble
4:59 Ann Esselstyn's Record
7:25 The Active Couch Potato Effect
11:05 The Myth of 10,000 Steps
13:33 Practical Tips for More Steps
16:01 Walking During Daily Activities
19:25 Short Walks and Daily Tasks
22:57 Setting Up for Success
28:01 Bartering with Neighborhood Crows
34:59 Myth of the Week: Leather vs Vegan Leather
46:37 Conclusion and Call to Action

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Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Welcome to the Deficient Vegans Podcast, episode 47. I'm the muscle-deficient vegan here with the protein-deficient vegan. Do you want to say hi? Hello! Hi, everybody. This week, we're going to break down why regular gym sessions or exercise don't fully cancel out a sedentary workday or a lifestyle where you sit around a lot. And we'll also share some practical tips and tricks to add a few thousand steps to your day without, you know, making it a whole adventure or changing your life too much.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

So, like, from a couch potato to a couch tater tot?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Oh, because it takes slightly more effort to make a tater tat? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. We'll also discuss our myth of the week this week, which is that animal-based leather is more environmentally friendly than vegan leather.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Hmm.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

So, we'll see. But first up, new news.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

New news.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

So, a Toronto startup, AUX Labs.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Or AUX.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Or AUX.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Or GoldX.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

GoldX, because AU.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, we don't know.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Anyway, they make precision fermented dairy protein. So we're back to talking about some precision fermentation. And they raise funding to be able to get their animal-free cheese into pizza shops and other small restaurants.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I hope they'll be at pizza shops we can buy from.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, they're a Canadian company and they didn't have a timeline or anything for distribution in the articles that I saw. But hopefully they'll make it way down here eventually.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

We're not that far from Canada. That's true. We can drive to Canada.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

This is a melty, stretchy type cheese with casein proteins. So this is, you know, bioidentical basically. to an animal-based casein protein, but it doesn't use animals.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Very cool. Yeah. I wonder... I do know that I am now dairy intolerant because we accidentally got dairied at a restaurant we ate at that had a vegan menu.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

So I wonder if I'd even be able to eat that.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Uh-huh. I don't have high hopes based on my reaction.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Because you basically found out you have a dairy intolerance because you had, what was that protein powder that's like bio-identical to something but it's still vegan?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. It was just my protein had a vegan whey that I tried. Yeah. Similar to, if you've heard of space milk, I think it's similar to that. But the MyProtein one, I'm very intolerant to, even though it's not real dairy.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

And that messed you up.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. So hopefully I'll be able to eat some of the things like this when they come out, but we'll see.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I don't have hopes for myself after getting dairied.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Luckily, I don't think I'll be too sad if I can't eat them because we have great options anyway. But it'd be nice to have some stretchy cheese every once in a while.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

It'd be pretty cool. Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Next up, Walmart has been sued for allegedly using potentially animal-derived and inorganic synthesized additives. in their Better Grands brand, plant-based milk.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I don't know why the phrase Walmart is being sued makes me smile, but it does.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Better Goods is their in-house brand that typically focuses on healthier options. They actually have a lot of vegan options in the line.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Or plant-based, I guess.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Well, yeah. I think there are some that are marked vegan, but yeah. The lawsuit argues that the plant-based label is misleading if all of the additives aren't derived from plants.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Which I've said this about Morningstar. more than a dozen times.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, they were one of the first ones we ran across that was using the plant-based label, but had milk or some other animal products.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, the plant-based label in general, I have a lot of issues with it, right? Because I think there is no specific definition. Like with vegan... The definition is it doesn't have animal products at all. It hasn't been tested on animals.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

No animal harm, right?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

But then plant-based seems to be all-encompassing of a myriad of things. Like, so basically, you know, I've seen omnivores use it to say they're plant-based, but they still eat meat on a regular basis. They just are, like, leaning more towards plant-based options, but they call themselves plant-based. Yeah. But then you have, like... The brand Morningstar, which will label shit plant-based, but then it has, like, eggs and dairy in it. I don't know what plants eggs and dairy come from, but I'm pretty sure they come from cows and chickens. Yeah. But then you have other people will say plant-based is just, like, synonymous with vegan.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

As far as food goes. So it's really confusing.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I agree. And I'm not sure I'm fully on board with part of this lawsuit, which is basically, like, if it has synthesized ingredients, it shouldn't say plant-based. I don't know about that part. But I will be happy if the lawsuit leads to more clarity and kind of rules around the plant-based labeling.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I agree, especially since I guess there's one or more studies that came out recently that said it was like a marketing survey type of thing that was saying that people respond better to plant-based as a label instead of vegan as a label on foods. Like vegan labels are like kind of turnoffs for consumers.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, that's a big issue. Even for restaurants, they can't really market like that this dish is vegan. They're better off just not saying anything and having it be vegan.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Which is kind of a problem because like when you're a vegan and you want to know something is vegan, now you have vegan companies that are now using the plant-based label, which as we talked about can like mean a number of things.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

So yeah, I think it's a good time to sort it out. And if Walmart gets screwed in the process, all the better.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

All right uh next up vegan ann esselston set a guinness world record at 90 years old for being the oldest person to hold a dead hang which is crazy where you hold you know you're hanging from like a pull-up bar by your arms yeah yeah so that's hard it is really hard a lot of people can only hold it for like 30 seconds she's 90 and she held it for two minutes and 52 seconds that's

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Crazy yeah have you tried doing monkey bars since you became an adult.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

No, I don't think I have.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I had a little, you know, like the big brother, big sister program. So I took her to the playground. This was like 10 years ago.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

And she's like doing monkey bars and she's like, do monkey bars with me. And I tried and bro, I like could not get across them.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

You just need, you need to get back to practice.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Can't do cartwheels either. It's weird. Once you stop doing them, you can't do them anymore.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I could probably do a cartwheel.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Okay. We'll have, we'll find out after this.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

We'll just say I can do one. I'm not going to prove it. Oh. Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Okay. Yeah, no, I probably can too. Okay.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Anne Esselstyn has been an athlete all her life, and she played and coached in 10 different sports.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I didn't even know there were 10 different sports you could play in.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, that's pretty crazy. If their last name sounds familiar, it's because her husband is Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, who you may have seen in the Forks Over Knives documentary. He's a big proponent of whole food plant-based, and he's a doctor that does work with reversing and preventing heart disease with a plant-based diet. And then her son is Rip Esselstyn, who is or was a firefighter. And then he started the Plant Strong food brand that you see in Whole Foods.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Pretty extraordinary plant-based family. Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

And pretty extraordinary athletes. Her husband was an Olympic rower. She was in a lot of sports. Rip was elite level in sports. I think she had several other kids and grandkids who were all elite athletes. So she left quite the legacy there.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Rip is a really cool name, by the way.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Oh, I know.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Ooh, bonus round on news this week. Like, apparently five female elephants death stomped a, um.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Big game hunter.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

A big game hunter.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Big game hunting is weird to me because they basically just drive you up to this animal that can't get away.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. It's not impressive. You're not cool. So, yeah. Go elephants. Also, I guess he was a millionaire. So, that's been, like, trending everywhere I exist on social media.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I mean, you know, karma, I guess.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I haven't seen any team millionaire. I just keep seeing team elephants. Right.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

All right. Let's get into the main segment. So talking about trying to be a little more active, even if you are stuck in like a desk job or you have a pretty sedentary life. Why does this matter? So there is something called the active couch potato effect. So the active couch potato effect is basically that sedentary time or time where you're sitting around is an independent health risk, even if you're an active person. So they say that, you know, exercising, maybe even exercising every day, doesn't fully offset like eight hours of sitting unless your activity level in general is very high. There was a big meta-analysis of this back in 2016 where they looked at over a million people across 16 studies.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

And they said that it looks like it took about 60 to 75 minutes a day of moderate physical activity to eliminate the increased risk of death associated with a high sitting time. So if you have a desk job, you would have to work out for like almost an hour and a half a day to offset that risk.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Wow.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Okay. Tangentially related.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

My friend that I used to work with. So basically a couple of years ago, everyone was getting standing desks. Yeah. Like all the older guys in the group were getting standing desks. And then he told them, yeah, you do need to be standing. You've been sitting your whole life.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

It's true.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

And he said that because he was younger. Yeah. And he didn't have a standing desk and it was hilarious.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Oh, man.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

You've been sitting your whole life.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

And on top of that specifically watching tv for three hours or more a day was associated with increased mortality except for if you were like in the 25 most active people basically and then even if you were in the 25 most active people it was still associated with increased mortality if you watch tv for five hours or more a day so basically if you watch tv for five hours or more a day there was not a level of activity that offset a significant increase in mortality risk

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Even if you watched the TV while you walked on a.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Treadmill? Well, no, it was sitting and watching TV. Okay. Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

You can't sit and watch TV for five hours a day?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Wow. That's really disappointing.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

And I'll have a link to, there's only that study and one other article I mentioned. I'll have a link to both those in the show notes if you want to dive into it.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

What about reading? Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, you're sitting. It doesn't really.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

So a sitting, any sitting activity.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

We need to include other people that might be sitting for other things.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I think watching TV was just the easiest way in the survey for people to correlate with like, I'm definitely sitting for this. Okay. That's what I guess, yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Plus you can time it because you have episodes and movie lengths.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

People are just kind of aware of how many hours of TV, why they watch a day.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

That's true because when I sit and read, I have no idea, I have no concept of time.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. And then since we're going to be talking about steps and increasing activity kind of that way, I want to touch on something about the 10,000 steps a day that you may have heard. That's not really scientific. It actually came from a pedometer maker in the 1960s. What? They just used 10,000 because it was kind of a nice round number. And the actual pedometer itself was, I don't know how to pronounce this exactly, but it was called like Mampo K, which means 10,000 step meter. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, and I think it was launched by a company called Yamasa before the 1964 Tokyo Olympics. So this was just like a big marketing thing for the Olympics to get people to walk more.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

My life is a lie.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Also, the number, because it was catchy, they picked it, but also the Japanese character for 10,000 was said to kind of look like a person walking.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Oh.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Wow.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

The real research says that the benefits kind of start to top off around 7,000 to 8,000 steps a day for most adults. And it could be as low as like 4,400 steps a day for older adults. Now, there's not necessarily a downside to getting 10,000 steps a day, although I did just see a study just like two days ago on Instagram that getting 10,000 steps a day actually decreased your total calorie expenditure because of some of the exercise offset stuff that we talked about an episode or two ago. So basically, you're doing all that effort to get 10,000 steps a day, but then because of that, you sit around a lot more than you would have otherwise. so it's like a negative benefit

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Wow. Okay. Okay. I have a question.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

So if they're saying you shouldn't be watching TV or sitting for more than three hours a day.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

But you're really only trying to get like 7,000 to 8,000 steps a day. What else are you doing?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

You're living your life, man.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Are you just standing? I was like thinking of like a work day.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. A work day. Yeah. I don't necessarily know that they're saying like there's definitely a way to fix this. They're just saying this is what the studies look like. So basically, desk jobs are bad. Is the outcome here.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I mean, I'm just thinking like the standing desks are great, but standing in one place is also not like great, right?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I think there are some downsides. I don't know if those downsides are worse than this, but.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Three hours. So you're only supposed to be sitting for three hours a day.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Something like that.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

So basically after we do this podcast, we only have two left.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

That's wild.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

We just have to go be very active to offset that.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

But you only get like seven, eight. For me, I'm like, okay, if I'm only sitting for three hours a day, 7,000 to 8,000 steps.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Well, the 7,000 to 8,000 steps aren't going to offset the sitting. They're just going to help.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Interesting. Okay.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

So it's all just a matter of trying to improve as much as you can.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I need tangible recommendations from this study. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I think three hours a day of sitting max seems kind of crazy to me. as someone who's had a desk job for over a decade.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I mean, the study isn't necessarily telling you how to walk more. It's just telling you you're more likely to die earlier.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Wow. Okay.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

So, yeah. You know, all they can do is say, hey, here's the outcome. We'll leave it to somebody else to figure out how to fix that.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

But the good thing is if you're already on a plant-based diet, you can offset some of that anyways, right?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

That's right. But we do have some tactics for how to fit in some steps, which is one way of being more active throughout your day. A lot of these tips are going to be about walking or getting in steps. So let's start first with, like, when we say, like, you should walk here or there, where would you go walk, like, physically?

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I think this can be a good thing to cover just because, like, if you're in, like, an apartment or an office building or something, it might not be obvious, like, where would I go do this shit you're telling me to do?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right. So, you know, the best one would probably be outside if it's possible and convenient. Like, if you can just bounce out your front door, do a quick lap around the neighborhood.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Get some vitamin D. Make sure you're wearing sunscreen.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Next up, if you're in an apartment or a hotel, you could walk up and down the hallways. I used to do that in an old apartment building. Or you can even walk around the building.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, your apartment was pretty small, so you definitely needed to go out in the hall.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. If you have a basement, if you have a house, you have a basement, you can walk there. Maybe if it's a big open space. If you're in an office building, you can use the hallways there again, kind of like the apartment. Or maybe the parking lots. We used to walk around the parking lot a lot. Oh, really? So the parking lot went kind of around the building, so we would just walk the parking lot. Um, or you could do open office more. Some office buildings have big floors that don't have a lot going on or just open office plans. You can walk there.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I would walk around the office space when I was in a building because everything had badge readers and like, you're not going to track my time going out to the parking lot to walk.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right. That's funny. And then some places like, I guess, apartments or no. Oh yeah. Some apartments, some hotels, even some offices have like a little gem in it. You could use a treadmill there. Yeah. So you can do that too.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

But this is for more like little tiny pieces of walking, not like...

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, this is probably not something you'll want to like go to something for. Yeah, yeah. So it had to be pretty close. Within a minute or so, you'd have to be able to get to some of the... Get to a place to walk within a minute for some of the tips we have here.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Or if you don't have any other good options, you can just walk in circles in the largest room you have in the house or even by like a walking pad or a treadmill for your house. Yeah. If you want to kind of get serious about this.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Just walk around the kitchen island.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

In circles.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, there you go.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Change directions, though, so you don't wear your shoes in one side.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Make friends with your downstairs neighbor. All right. So now let's get into some of the ways we can maybe approach this. Some of the first ones that are like free and don't involve any setup or anything like that. One is to walk during phone calls. This is one I've tried to do for a while. I don't do it every time, but, you know, it's always been in the back of my mind. But if you have a phone call that's not like a camera phone call, if you're just on audio only, Just walk every time you're on an audio phone call.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Man, I don't really think this works for a lot of work calls.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Well, yeah, some stuff you had to be at your computer to, like, look at information or whatever, but...

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Like, I'll call with your mom.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. But there are some work calls where it's just a discussion. I have a lot of those. Mm-hmm. So you can walk for those.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I don't feel like I ever had any that I would be able to just, like, walk around and not pay attention very good in.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. A lot of these are going to be pretty individual based on, you know, your circumstances.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

But, like, personal calls. Yeah, definitely. You can definitely do it with personal calls. You don't need to pay attention during those.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, if you're on hold with the doctor's office or something like that. There you go. Also, you can kind of pace or walk when you're listening to your podcast or audio books. I bet a lot of people probably do this already.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I heard a really cool tip of like, if you're super into an audio book that you're listening to or like a podcast, maybe a stabby podcast that you like to listen to about people getting stabbed.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Okay. As you do.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

As you do. As women do. You could pair only listening to that podcast or that audio book with walking. Like, I don't listen to this unless I'm walking.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

We do that with books, too. when we listen to some together and we only listen to that when we're walking. So it's like a lot of the time I'm like, wow, we need to go walk because I want to hear what happens next. Yeah. Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I think that's a pretty cool trick.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, I think so too. Another one that I used to do quite a bit, I do it now more but not quite as dogmatic as I was before, is like park as far away as you can when you go somewhere. So if you like go to the office building or even like to the grocery store, just park at the very last spot available.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

And your car is less likely to get dinged or hit.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, 100%. That's definitely true.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

And always take your cart back to the cart return.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah if

Protein Deficient Vegan:

You don't you're a shitty person.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right and you get steps and

Protein Deficient Vegan:

You get steps.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Um if you don't drive or park to work if you take public transportation that kind of similar tip for this is to get off one stop early and then walk the i

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Get so lost.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Though yeah you have to know where you're at i think i'd

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Get a lot of steps i'm not so good with maps.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Get a lot of steps never show up where you were yeah call an uber to take you home at the end of the day another one you probably heard before is like always take the stairs um if it's fewer than four floors you say i take the stairs every time if it's more than four floors you can take the stairs if you have time yeah and if you don't if you don't want to show up like out of breath right like

Protein Deficient Vegan:

If you have an interview and you're wearing nice clothes and you You don't want to meet someone being like, maybe just take the elevator that time.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right, right. Yeah, stairs whenever possible. Um, also another one is you could go whenever you're like, you're working throughout the day, if you have to use the restroom, you could go to the one on a different floor or the one furthest away in the building.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. And then your office mates won't ever hear you poop because you're in a different bathroom than they would be in. That's true. With other people you don't work with. Yep.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yep.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

And no one would ever expect you to be in there. Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

You can also do this. Pro tip. You can also do this at home if you do have multiple bathrooms or something. You could go to the one furthest away from wherever you're working at home. So, yeah, it's just, you know, a lot of these are like not much, but it adds up over time. You know, you're getting in, you know, 20 or 30 extra steps, you know, 15 times a day, something like that. That adds up.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

You keep 15 times a day.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I'm talking about adding all these together. Oh, OK.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

It's like, wow. I never noticed that about you.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

You can also attach walking to some existing habits. So you can walk for like five minutes after your breakfast, lunch and dinner, all three of those. And that is also supposed to help with like digestion and some other things, too. So you get some double benefit there. Also, it just like makes you feel better. I always like walking right after I eat. I'm not sure. You can also walk around while you wait for like coffee or tea to brew. If you want somebody that makes coffee in the morning or makes a cup of tea, something like that. Wait for the water to boil. Walk around for a while. You can also walk around while you have food in the microwave. So that's usually a couple minutes. Yeah. Get a couple steps in there.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

This is interesting. A little off topic. But my dad, you know, dial up. We had dial-up when I was a kid because we lived in the boonies.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Dial-up internet.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Dial-up internet. Which means... And we had it for a long time. Even like 10 years ago, my parents still had dial-up.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Your computer calls a phone number to connect to the internet. That's what that used to mean, kids.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

But it like takes a while.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

So my dad's thing is like, this takes like a minute to connect. So while that's happening, I'm going to go load the dishwasher or like unload the dishwasher or do whatever.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. No, that's good. Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

So kind of the same.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Um, find inefficient things and go do steps.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, definitely. Um, another one you can do is do a short lap after every time you go to the bathroom. So this is kind of like with the, you can go to the bathroom far away, or if that's not really an option, then when you go to the bathroom, just like do a lap around whatever a lap means to you, like a lap around your room.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, just like weirdly pace in the bathroom.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, you can do that too. Very short, small circles. um yeah and if you don't have a dedicated spot to do like short walks like if these are like okay these sound cool but i can't there's no really i can really walk for a lot of these yeah then you can kind of combine it with tasks like chores kind of like you were just saying your dad went to like do like dishes or something like that so like every time every time you would walk like if you have your coffee brewing or you have something in the microwave whatever go do a load of laundry or go do some dishes or you know whatever you need to do in the house it's not

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Really adding like extra time to your.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Day right and you're getting tours done yeah

Protein Deficient Vegan:

A triple win.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah um you can also do like a lap tax uh so before you leave a place that you're at before you leave a store before you leave the office before you leave the gym you do an extra lap around you know the building or parking lot or whatever and before you go to your car i

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Would never do this at the office that that's going to result in me talking to other.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

People yeah if you're when i want to go home leaving the same time as everybody else you're basically just making around to talk to everybody Fuck that.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

My introverted self could never.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

And then if you work from home and interruptions don't come naturally and maybe some of these things don't apply to you, like I don't drink coffee, I don't drink tea, whatever, you can also just set a timer at your desk to remind you to go walk. And then if you wear a fitness tracker like a Fitbit or an Apple Watch or something like that, you can set those up to remind you. It's usually like once an hour. I know Apple Watch's default has always been like 10 minutes before the hour every hour. It'll tell you to stand up. So you can use those reminders to go take a lap.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, I know Fitbit will give you a reminder 10 minutes before the hour's up if you don't have 250 steps that hour.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, that's a good one. I like that that considers like, have you already walked? Yeah. Yeah, I like that. So yeah, there's some things you can do. So all of those are like really easy, free things to do. Next, we have a couple that are smaller, but they might have a little bit of setup.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Okay.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

So one is set up a calendar event. So if you have a desk job, you probably use something like an email thing that has a calendar built in. So you can block off five minutes between meetings, like block it off like a meeting, enter it as a meeting, and then use that for a five-minute walk between your meetings.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I like that.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Another one is, so if you're in an office, you can go get like your drinks. You're filling up your water throughout the day. You're going to get coffee from the work machine. You can use the farthest point away in the building that you can get water to go do that.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

We should move our fridge downstairs.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Our fridge is downstairs.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

No, in the basement.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Oh, all the way downstairs. You can also put like common items slightly inconveniently farther away from you.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Tell me more.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

So things like your water bottle, your phone charger, any snacks you might have for the day. Put them somewhere where you have to get up and walk to go grab them.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I like all of those except for water because I think that might just be like, I don't drink that day. Like if I get like really focused.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Okay, let's replace it with, instead of keeping your water far away, you keep your coffee or your V8 energy far away.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, I think that makes more sense.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, because you've got to have that, right?

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, you have to.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Um, you can also try setting up what's like a step. So, okay, you have a step goal for the day, maybe like maybe you want to get your 7,000, 8,000 steps, maybe sometimes 10,000 steps, whatever. Um, then you can also set up a step floor for the day. So even on the days where you can't hit your goal, you say, okay, no matter what, though, I'm going to get 5,000 steps a day as a minimum. So it's like, okay, I can't get 10,000 a day, but I can't ever not get 5,000 steps.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I think this one makes a lot of sense because for me, if I have a goal and if I can't meet that goal... I get really demotivated to do anything, even trying to get that goal if I know I'm not going to be able to hit the actual number. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. So it's like, oh, if I'm like really, really busy and I know I can't hit 10,000, I might not get more than 2,000.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right. And I mean, realistically, this is just like another goal, right? But if you just think of it mentally as like, okay, this is the minimum. Yeah. But my actual goal is this other one. Then you can kind of reframe it for yourself that way. And then another one is if you have dogs or any other animal that is suitable to walking.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

What other animals would you walk on a leash?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I've seen people walk cats and like- Have you really? And hedgehogs.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Hedgehogs?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I don't think it's very common.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

My brother had a hedgehog when we were growing up. It was, he had a hedgehog named Hazel and it was his class pet. Yeah. And I guess the teacher, I don't really remember the whole lore behind it, but the teacher didn't want the hedgehog anymore. Yeah. And since my mom also worked at the school- Yeah. They gave it to my brother. And so he had this hedgehog for like a couple of years.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Oh, wow.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

And it was, hedgehogs are fucking weird. Weird? They're kind of weird. I just remember it would go like meandering around the house and sometimes it would get stuck. Like it liked to find crevices.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

You let it free roam?

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, I remember it was free roaming a lot.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Huh.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

So like sometimes it would get stuck. Like, you know how there's like that space between your fridge and the wall maybe? Yeah. It'd get stuck between that. Yeah. And all of a sudden you'd hear.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Oh, no.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

That's what happens when they get stuck. And then they puff up, which makes them harder to get out. And bless you.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Well, at least they let you know where they are when they're stuck.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

That's terrible.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Pretty much all I know about hedgehogs. It was mostly my brother's thing, so I was just kind of like, why do we have a hedgehog? Yeah. But yeah, I guess you could walk your hedgehog. I didn't know you could put them on leashes.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I think I've seen it in a clip or something. I don't know if anybody does this in real life. But yeah, you know, mostly dogs.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Mostly dogs.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

So you go for a daily dog walk to get some culture.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, bird watching perhaps.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Also, it's good for the dog.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

It is good for the dog.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Could you walk a bird? Do you think it would fly on a...

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I don't think that's a good idea. That seems not very nice. Okay, anyway. You could go try to make friends with the neighborhood birds or maybe set out a dish of crow offerings farther away from your house and like visit it to see what's going on. Did they leave you trinkets?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Tell me about what a crow offering is.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, so this is something I want to get into. but apparently i've seen this on tiktok right so people will leave crow offerings like apparently you can leave dog food or berries and nuts and various other things you leave it for the crow food and then you become friends with the neighborhood crow and they will leave you trinkets like like coins or like i don't know those little can top what are those can things called tabs can tabs yeah various like random metal objects that are shiny they bring back maybe like rocks i don't know so.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

You have a bartering system with the neighborhood

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Crows yes all right i want that i need that in my life that sounds very interesting we're gonna start doing it so hopefully you're on board i'm.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Always on board All right. And then just a couple of things you can do that cost a little money, but they have pretty good return on the money. So one is a walking pad you can put under your desk. Yeah. I have one of these. To be honest, I haven't quite used it yet because we, you know, we have a couple of options to do walking around. But I do want to get it set up and start using it because I think it can help, you know, help me just stay more energized during the day. Yeah. But a lot of people do use these and really, really like them. And they're usually just a couple hundred dollars, fits under your desk, not as expensive as it seems like it would be. Um, there, you can also do either like a standing desk itself or like a, just a converter, like a stand to put your monitor and stuff up on to make your desk a standing desk.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. You could do a standing desk and walking pad combo. And you could be like the guy that plays piano for Romstein. Yeah. How he's just like walking on a treadmill playing the keyboard.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. And you know, if you do a standing desk thing, you don't have to stand all day. Right. Like, so you can just, even if you're, you know, some people ease into it. to like stand for one hour the first day two hours a second day whatever but you can just kind of do that forever like just go and say okay i have a standing desk because i stand for the first hour of the day every day yeah

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Maybe you work.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Up yeah to a larger number yeah or you just stick it one hour a day forever man

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I i have a lot of trouble standing and focusing when i'm trying to.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Work yeah i think it depends on the tasks specifically that you're working on i can do some of them standing some of them i really just like feel like i need to sit and think i don't know if

Protein Deficient Vegan:

It's like a monotonous task like i'm typing in a spreadsheet i can stand but if it's like i need to use my brain power and like really be thinking i have that's a sitting activity.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah this is kind of like how you need to turn down the radio in the car to back up yeah

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah but like standing during calls is probably a good.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Idea oh for sure yeah you

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Don't need to pay attention to.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Those yeah unless

Protein Deficient Vegan:

You're running the call.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah no

Protein Deficient Vegan:

One's paying attention during.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Those yeah and you can get the converters for just like like a couple hundred dollars or you can actually build your own if you're just wanting to like put your monitor up on something put your keyboard up on something yeah go get a couple pieces of wood or some even up some textbooks whatever you can get pretty creative but an actual standing desk is going to be probably like three or four hundred dollars for some of the normal ones you can get a little price you can get really fancy ones but you know just do whatever makes sense if

Protein Deficient Vegan:

You're going to spend the money on that though also get an ergonomic mat to stand on yeah otherwise your feet and back are going to.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Hurt right they also have those um I see those chairs a lot at, like, tech companies where it's kind of like a leaning chair. You don't really sit in it. You just kind of lean your butt on it, but you're standing up.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I've never seen something like that.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I don't know exactly what they're called, but it's just like, I think it might be called a leaning chair. It's just like a little bitty, almost like a bike, like a bike seat, sort of, but more comfortable. Yeah. But that kind of thing. And your butt just kind of rests against it, but you're standing up. Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I also have seen those yoga ball chairs.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I've never trusted that. Really? But I know people like them.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Well, they make them that are seated in a chair frame so you can't, like, fall.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

That's interesting.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

But I think those are kind of interesting because, like, your abs have to, like, stabilize you the whole time. So you're sitting, but, like, you're still doing something.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, yeah. Cool. So a lot of options there for doing a standing desk type of setup or even just not a normal chair type of setup. Yeah. And then the last thing you could do is, like, a treadmill desk. If you're, like, really serious about it, this is more expensive. It's basically just a rule.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I didn't even know they had a treadmill desk.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, it's like, it's a full treadmill, but then it's just got like a desktop on it.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Interesting.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. So I've never actually seen one of those.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

But then you're kind of like screwed if you want to sit, right?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Exactly.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I think this is a bad option. Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

This would have to be for somebody who's like, okay, I do walking every day. And we used to actually have a guy I worked with who, he was like a triathlete, marathon runner or whatever. So he was literally walking on a treadmill his entire work day for like two years straight.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Interesting. Yeah. Do you feel like he was just as productive and good at his job?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

He actually was super productive and super good at his job. Wow. I can't imagine a lot of people like that are.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. So, yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I asked him once, I was like, how do you do anything, like bouncing around? So I guess his tactic was actually, he ended up just hanging a TV on his wall for his monitor. And then he just kind of got used to typing while he was walking.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Wow.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. So I don't know if I'd do all that, but he was extremely serious about his step count.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

He doesn't do it anymore?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I don't know. The last couple of times I've seen him, he's just been at his desk.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Oh, no. Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I think he had an ankle injury or something there for a while. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it was related to the walking every day, but.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I would definitely get an ankle injury if I was, like, typing and walking.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

He's a big runner, though. Runners run into that kind of injury a lot. Yeah. Anywho. Yeah, so those are some of the options you can do. But, yeah, kind of the key takeaway here is that, you know, frequency beats, like, doing intensity. So instead of, like, going for a focused, you know, walk or even a jog or a run one time a day to try to get them all in, Try to break it up into just getting more steps throughout your day with everything you do. And you can also just add stuff in like go be active, like go play some Frisbee golf or go outside and garden or something like that. All that stuff's going to get you more steps. Maybe choose those things instead of sitting around watching TV sometimes and stuff like that. And so like the easiest way to get more steps is not to become like a walking person, like a person who goes for walks. It's just to kind of redesign your day. So walking becomes a little bit of everything you do.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

And if you really like TV, maybe replace it with an audio book. Yeah. You feel like you're watching TV in your brain, but you can walk around.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Or just put a treadmill in your living room. You can watch TV all you want and walk. That's true. Yeah. A lot of people do that. They'll put some kind of exercise bike or treadmill in the living room, whatever. And, you know, it's really good. I always used to, at the gym, like when I would do cardio at the gym, I always liked to go in the cardio theater where they were playing like a movie or something.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I've never seen a gym like this. Yeah?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

No. That was a pretty normal gym.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Hmm.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I don't know.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I've always had, like, gyms in my apartment or, like, home gyms, like, that I put together shit in my apartment or my house or whatever.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Well, even Planet Fitness has, like, all the TVs and you can tune into the audio on one of the TVs through the treadmill or whatever. That's true. You could watch movies through that,

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I guess. But you're making it sound like it's a theta.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

That one was a theater. There were no lights. You were on a cardio machine and it was a theater screen movie.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

But then they picked the movie?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, they picked the movie. You don't need to vote on it? But they tell you ahead of time what the movies are going to be.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Were they any good movies?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I mean, they were like blockbusters or whatever, normal movies. Yeah. They weren't always good movies. Anyway, yeah. So put a treadmill or an exercise bike in your living room, something like that.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

It's like that girl that does, I think I've talked about her before, the girl that does cozy cardio. Yeah. She like gets her cute little drink in the morning and she puts on like cozy clothes and she lights a candle and dims the lights and then she turns on her favorite show or movie and she just walks on her treadmill for like an hour.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Exactly. That's a great way to do it.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Cozy cardio.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

There you go. All right, so now let's get into our myth of the week this week, which is that leather, animal-based leather, is more environmentally friendly than vegan leather or pleather.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I'm sure you already know this since you're on social media a lot, but every week and or month, there's this new unoriginal thing that, like, every single person that posts anti-vegan content is saying.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

And this month, it seems to be that vegans are terrible because they prefer vegan leather over animal leather, and that's destroying the environment.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, so we're going to get into, like, comparing the two, but let's just start with how often are you buying vegan leather?

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Okay, I have been arguing about this a lot on threads. I'm, for some reason, this week, because it's been, we had Earth Day this week, I've been an absolute menace on threads. Like, I am just an angry little bitch on threads, and I've been having a great time. So let's start there. But I've been arguing back and forth with people about leather, right? And, like, this one person wrote me this fucking monologue bullshit, and I was like, girl, I buy pleather once a year tops for, like, tennis shoes. Leave me alone.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Maybe. I think, like, you mostly wear hokas now. I don't even think they have vegan leather.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Well, I think I think the material that is like the insert type stuff on the sides and stuff.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Oh, I guess a little bit.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Vegan leather. But like how much is on there? Not much. I'm not buying vegan leather jackets. I don't wear vegan leather purses. I wear canvas stuff like every material I buy. It has nothing to do with leather or vegan leather.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

It's like maybe you'd find vegan leather in your car. But like how often are you buying a car?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

And like if it comes to like couches, furniture, I'm not buying vegan leather or leather. I'm not buying those. Yeah. So like what are you what are you buying that's leather?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I was trying to think the other day, like the only, I was thinking like maybe some gym stuff, but then I started thinking through it. I don't think any of it is even like a fake leather. I think most of it is, you know, like rubbers.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, like it wouldn't have been made with leather anyway.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right, exactly. It's nothing that was like meant to be leather. Yeah. Right, a replacement for leather. It's all like plastics or rubbers or whatever that were never going to be leather at all.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Exactly. The only other things I can think about are like belts. Yeah. Which I have never worn a leather or a pleather belt. I've always bought like, I don't know, belts that are made of like some kind of cotton or something. Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I have had leather belts in the past, but the belt is something like I wear one belt and I keep it for 20 years.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, exactly. Or like a wallet.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I've never had a leather wallet in my whole life.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

My wallet's like a, it's like a metal.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, yours is metal. Mine's like a canvas one. So, I mean, yeah. It's just funny. It's just another funny one because it's like they find this very, very niche, almost non-consequential thing that like vegans are doing wrong and then they blow it into this big thing because that was kind of my thing was like I maybe buy vegan leather, something with vegan leather once a year. But like every day I'm making the choice to eat a plant-based diet multiple times a day, which is better for the environment. So like, even if you say, even if you were to say vegan leather is the worst thing that could happen to the environment, I'm offsetting that by choosing a plant-based diet year round.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

We'll get into why there's more than meets the eye here.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, for sure. So, first of all, you know, a lot of people just think of leather, like animal-based leather, as a byproduct of cattle farming, which is mostly true, but it's a lot more complicated than that, too.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. So I've read a lot of articles because I've been arguing with a lot of people. And I think most people consider leather to be a co-product of like basically meat and dairy because there is an incentive to farm animals in order to sell this. Right. It's sold at a high enough price that like it does matter.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, it's like suddenly if you weren't able to sell the hides for leather anymore or whatever, like maybe your farm economics wouldn't make sense anymore. Like it actually matters.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, you might not make a profit if you couldn't sell animal-based leather. Right. So it is a co-product. A byproduct would be like a little sprinkling on the top.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

So for any vegetarians or plant-based people or vegans who are buying leather thinking it is a byproduct so it's not doing any harm, that's not necessarily true because you are basically proving the business model of animal farming. Yeah. By giving them money so that they're making a profit.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Yeah. The only way that is even kind of true is like there aren't really animals that are raised specifically for leather.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

That's true. But if we go towards a plant-based diet and, you know, we're using less animals for food, then I think there does come a point where like leather either goes up a lot in price or they are like basically raising animals. for their skin.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right. And then they'll be at a point where it's like, okay, we're wasting all the meat in this animal, so let's make more meat. So it's like, yeah. Yeah. It's definitely like two products in one, basically. Yeah. So obviously, leather is tied to the cattle production, kind of like we're talking about here, which has its own issues for land use, methane emissions, water use.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Greenhouse gases, water use, incredibly inefficient.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right. And those three are going to be like for the cattle, regardless of the leather situation. But the one that really comes into play with leather specifically is the tanning process.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Right. In which they're using like formaldehyde and they're using chromium, which are like carcinogenic and incredibly toxic. They end up in waterways near these facilities.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. The, you know, leather is like the animal skin, right? So the skin doesn't come off the animal ready to use as leather. It goes through a whole industrial process. And most of the time this is done in countries without a lot of safety regulations or the factories where they're doing tanning are very unsafe. I think I saw in one of the tanning areas in Bangladesh, the World Health Organization did a study and said 90% of the people who live near the tanning facility die before 50.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I saw that too. It's very, very bad. And I was looking at like pictures from inside the facility. Most of them aren't even wearing any kind of protective equipment, like personal protective equipment. They're like standing in these tubs of like chemicals and like they don't have any any kind of face mask or anything yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. And I mean, so some of the vegan leathers, they're not like without fault here. A lot of those are made from plastics or like PVC, which is also a big industrial issue.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Polyvinyl chloride.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Right. But there are also a lot of other issues. They're made from polyurethane also. Yeah. So polyurethane and PVC have a lot of issues as far as being plastics and a lot of manufacturing problems and probably even some carcinogenic issues.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. And they're not biodegradable.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, but they're used for a lot of things other than vegan leather, obviously. Yeah. But also there are plant-based alternatives. So there's plant fiber-based materials that are used for leather. There's a bunch of recycled stuff, biomass stuff. I've seen some myocillium, whatever, like the mushroom-based composites used for like leather replacements.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I've seen pineapple skin.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, pineapple skin.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Cactus.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, cork.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Cork, yeah. There are, like, a ton of, like, new, truly more eco-friendly plant-based leather alternatives.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. So, I would say if you are trying to buy something that's vegan leather, I would probably still try to avoid polyurethane and PVC and go for one of these more eco-friendly replacements.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah, if you could find it.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. A couple other things you can do to try to help reduce your impact here, even when you're buying the vegan leather. uh use what you already own for as long as possible even if that means trying to repair it yeah so that's always a good option uh and then you can buy you know things secondhand not like real leather but buy you know vegan leather materials secondhand yeah

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I kept uh getting people telling me well buying leather secondhand is way better than buying vegan leather firsthand yeah and, I see where they're coming from, but at the same time, like the demand for leather products. So, like, let's say I'm looking for a leather jacket. Yeah. But like me, I'm a vegan. Right. So, I'm looking for a pleather jacket or some vegans are saying a secondhand leather jacket, right? Right. But, like, let's say there's an omnivore out there that's also looking for a leather jacket and they also want to buy secondhand. Right. But they're willing to buy leather firsthand. Right. And if there is not a second-hand option, they are going to buy leather firsthand. Right. Right? So, like, if I go to a thrift shop and find the only leather jacket that either of us can wear in this area, now I have purchased the second-hand leather and increased the demand for first-hand leather because the person that wanted a leather jacket, a real leather jacket, cannot find it second-hand. Right. So, I don't know. I mean, that is just, like, a scenario I cooked up in my head. But, like, also for me personally, as a vegan, I don't want animal flesh on my body. Yeah. That sounds fucking gross. That's just my opinion.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I think a lot of vegans feel that way.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Like, I would feel, like, I don't even like sitting on, like, my parents have, like, a leather couch. I think about it constantly when I'm visiting them. It disgusts me. I find it really gross.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Like, your whole couch is made out of a dead cow. That's fucking nasty. Yeah. That's just how I feel. Like, so... I don't know. That's my two cents on second hand.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. If you get the vegan leather and let the non-vegan get the secondhand leather, then nobody has to buy new leather. Right. I think we can say that, you know, for various reasons, vegan leather is definitely not like worse for the environment than normal leather because it involves the entire cattle industry. And also because there are a lot of very low impact vegan leather options available that are not PVC and polyurethane. Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I think even if you're talking about the plastic based vegan leather, it's still probably a wash environmentally if you're comparing it to animal based leather. And then a further point, because I've had a couple of people that call themselves vegan that are coming in and being pro leather is like it's still harming an animal to take their skin. It's still incredibly cruel to kill an animal for their skin. Right. And like, you can't just do incredibly cruel and inhumane things under the guise of it's environmentally friendly. Because I'll tell you what, here's a scenario I also cooked up in my brain, is that if all the old people died and we use their skin for leather, everyone would throw an uproar, right? Like, people would be pissed.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Well, and also because, you know, going back to we were talking about it as being a co-product and not necessarily a byproduct. If you were trying to use that frame of mind, you could use the same argument the other way and say, I eat meat because these cows are going to be used for leather anyway. Yeah, exactly. That doesn't make sense to you. So why does it make sense the other way around?

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. I just think, like, in general, if we're calling ourselves vegan, we should not be advocating for using animals for any nefarious means, period.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Especially when we have other options. There are other alternatives.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Exactly and like, You sound kind of stupid because the facts and data are actually against what you're talking about. Yeah. It's not super environmentally friendly to do leather. And the humans and the environment are impacted by the tanning process of leather.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think leather has always got a big sticking point because it is like extremely durable, lasts for an extremely long time. It's really strong. But, you know, we have technology now. We're making better and better alternatives all the time. Better, even stronger. So, yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

Better, stronger, faster. What is that from?

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

That's from the $6 million man.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I've never seen that.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

I've never seen it, but I've heard of it, and I know where it is. It's from the 70s.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

It's also from a TV commercial.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Probably, yeah. I don't know which one, though. It's probably Nike or something, right?

Protein Deficient Vegan:

I don't know.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. Anyway. All right. Well, I think that's it for this week. If you guys could like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, that really helps us out. You can also leave a review and a rating there. And then you can leave a comment on YouTube and Spotify as well. We like reading those. Also, we have our links to our websites and social media in the show notes, as well as a link to our Deficient Vegans Discord channel, where you can come hang out with us in the community and chat about a whole bunch of stuff.

Protein Deficient Vegan:

It's a real good time.

Muscle Deficient Vegan:

Yeah. All right. Well, you want to say bye? Bye, guys. Bye, everybody.

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Muscle Deficient Vegan

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Protein Deficient Vegan

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