Muscle Deficient Vegan: 0:00

Welcome to episode six of the Deficient Vegans podcast. I'm the muscle deficient vegan and I'm here with the awesome protein deficient vegan. You wanna say hi?

Protein Deficient Vegan: 0:07

Hi.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 0:08

Hi. So last week we talked about how to track your calories. This week we're gonna talk about how to burn or use your calories. So let's talk about how your body actually uses calories. Uh, first off, the majority of the calorie burn is gonna be from something called your base metabolic rate or basal metabolic rate. You may have heard both. This is mostly determined by your biological sex, your age, your weight, your height, and your body fat percentage. This makes up the majority of the calories you burn throughout the day, naturally, no matter what you do. Then next, for the actual total calories you burn throughout the day, you take that basal metabolic rate and you add on top of it your activity level, which is technically comprised of. Exercise activity and non-exercise activity at a high level. So exercise activities, obviously exercise, non-exercise activity is anything you kind of don't do intentionally. One of the common examples is if you sit around and bounce your leg up and down, that's that's one example and that can actually burn quite a bit of calories throughout the day. And then the last factor of your total daily energy expenditure is just the thermic effect of food. You don't need to think about it too much, but basically when you eat food, your body digests it, and that uses some calories.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 1:17

If you wanna calculate your TDEE, you can find many calculators online.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 1:22

So the one I like is TDEE calculator.net, but you can use pretty much any of 'em. So the things you'll need for the calculator are the things we talked about before for the base metabolic rate. And on top of that, you'll also need to put in your activity level.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 1:35

Yeah, be honest here.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 1:36

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 1:37

Really do some soul searching.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 1:38

Right. So there are a couple of options for the activity level. Typically, depending on the calculator, you'll see maybe a, a couple, maybe a whole lot. But generally you're gonna see sedentary, which is an office job. This doesn't necessarily mean you literally sit in your house and don't do anything. Uh, in fact, that could be even a lower activity level that some calculators do account for. But sedentary is typically seen as you don't do any intentional exercise. Maybe you. Walk around a little during the day, maybe go into the office for work. So you're up and moving around throughout the day, but you're not really doing anything intentional. So that is considered a sedentary for the activity levels on the calculator. Next up is light exercise. So if you do exercise one to two days a week. Or even if you do some light walking three to four days a week, you would probably fall into this light exercise category after light exercise as a moderate exercise category. On the, the calculator I referenced specifically, this is exercise three to five days a week, or maybe you do physical work or you play sports a couple days a week, or maybe you work in construction, something along those lines. Even if you don't do actual exercise, you know that work is a little harder, so you're getting in kind of the same activity.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 2:43

Okay. I have a question,

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 2:44

Uhhuh.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 2:45

So I have an office job. But I do work out three to five days a week. Which one do I pick?

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 2:50

You have an office job and you work out three to five days a week. You're probably still gonna be in the moderate exercise range.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 2:55

Okay.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 2:55

Yeah. So I'd say if you do exercise, I would just default to picking the activity level that aligns to the amount of exercise you do.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 3:03

Fair.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 3:04

The next one is heavy exercise. So this is gonna be basically if you exercise almost every day, or if you play a sport several times a week, or if you work in some kind of really hard labor job,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 3:14

a real sport, not like bowling, right?

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 3:17

Well, I guess it depends on that. Does bowling count? How energetic are you when you're bowling? How

Protein Deficient Vegan: 3:20

aggressive do you bowl?

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 3:21

I've seen the movies about bowlers and they dance a lot, so maybe that would True. That's true.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 3:24

That might count.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 3:25

Yeah. Have you ever really about ping

Protein Deficient Vegan: 3:26

pong?

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 3:26

Really hardcore celebration dance. Ping pong seems like it would be really hard actually.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 3:31

Lawn darts.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 3:32

Okay. No. Yeah. I think anything where you're drinking a beer as doesn't part of the competition, doesn probably doesn't fit into the, no,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 3:38

no corn hole.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 3:39

Yeah, no corn hole. And then the, the top. Um, the top activity level on most of the calculators is gonna be like an actual athlete. So this is typically, if you're doing like two exercises a day, basically you're gonna know if you put into this category, right? Uh, one thing to keep in mind is it doesn't matter too much if you pick the wrong category off the bat because the calculators are gonna be kind of a starting ballpark figure anyway. You're gonna have to adapt it to your body. You know, these numbers for the calculators come from big studies with a bunch of people. They don't always align to every individual that's gonna use it. So next we're gonna talk about what do you actually do with this information. Now you kind of understand how it works. You can understand how to use the calculator, but how do you actually go and use this to your advantage? So one thing to understand is that the, the total daily energy expenditure or the TDEE we were talking about, what that actually means is if you were to eat. The same amount of calories as your TDEE that will put you at what we call, uh, maintenance calories, which means you won't gain or lose weight, you'll stay at the same weight if you eat that level of calories. If you eat a little less than those calories, that's what we call a deficit, and you'll lose weight. If you eat more, you're anac caloric surplus, and you'll gain weight. So, I mean, controlling your weight at a high level is really just as simple as finding out what your actual maintenance is and eating more or less calories than that.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 4:57

It's math and math is fun.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 4:58

I agree. So what you can do here is you want to decide if your goal is weight loss, weight gain, or maintaining weight. And you know, as you kind of go through your life and your fitness journey, whatever that may be, you'll probably have all these goals at different points in time. So just focus on which one is the highest priority for you right now. If you want to gain weight, we recommend starting with 500 calories over your TDEE. That'll be a very slight surplus

Protein Deficient Vegan: 5:23

per day.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 5:24

Per day. If you wanna lose weight the same on the other side, 500 calories less than your TDEE. And then if you wanna maintain weight, obviously you can eat exactly your TDE. So total to lose or gain a pound is gonna be about 3,500 calories,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 5:38

which is like a bag of a chips.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 5:41

Yeah. Yeah. How many is that?

Protein Deficient Vegan: 5:44

I think it's like a bag of chips, probably.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 5:46

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 5:47

The good ones, the good chips, not the healthy chips. The good shit guys.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 5:52

Yeah. So you can gain a pound if you eat a bag of chips if you're really struggling to gain weight.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 5:55

Yeah. That is our advice for you. No, don't do that.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 5:59

Definitely don't do that.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 6:00

So lucky for us. 500 divides into 3,507 times, so you can just use the 500 calorie less or more a day.'cause there's

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 6:12

seven days in a week.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 6:13

Yeah, there are seven days in a

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 6:15

week. I can also do math.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 6:17

That's wild. I didn't know that about you. He's been hiding this from me.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 6:21

Yeah. So we wanna always try to maintain as much muscle as possible. So we don't wanna really want to lose or gain more than about a pound a week. That enables us to, you know, maintain muscle if we're losing weight and not gain any extra fat. If we're trying to gain weight, we shouldn't also ever really go below 1500 calories a day total. Sometimes the calculator will kind of guide you to maybe a deficit that has you eating less than 1500 calories a day. But I think in those situations you would really want to try to maybe just increase your exercise. The problem is if you go too far below 1500 calories a day, you can start running into nutrient deficiencies and really low energy and hard recoveries, and a lot of other issues like that,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 7:04

like hangar.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 7:06

Also hanger is a very real problem. It

Protein Deficient Vegan: 7:08

is.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 7:08

So, I know one pound up or down a a week doesn't sound like a lot, but I mean, really slow and steady is the way you wanna do this. You know, you've got your, your whole life to hit your fitness goals and live a long happy life. So there's no reason to rush it by a couple extra months and risk doing it, you know, in a way that makes you gain extra fat or lose a bunch of muscle, or just generally feel like crap

Protein Deficient Vegan: 7:29

or yo-yo.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 7:30

Yeah, yo-yoing is actually really bad for your, your health and your heart. And your skin and everything else.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 7:35

Yeah. Like, you know, for instance, not like anyone I've known me has ever done this, but like, you're like, I'm gonna do P 90 X and I'm gonna go so hard and I'm gonna eat like 1400 calories a day and do P 90 X every day. And then eventually you get today, I dunno. Huh? Let's say 63, that's your breaking point, and then you just eat Cheetos, you know?

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 7:57

Yeah. And you probably didn't recover that entire 63 days.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 8:00

I don't think so.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 8:01

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 8:02

Yeah. So don't do that,

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 8:03

right? So it's way more sustainable to just do a small calorie adjustment like this. You end up with a better end result because you're more muscle and you feel better. You end up with less loose skin if you're trying to lose weight. Losing weight slowly is one of the few ways to kind of help reduce loose skin in the end result. And then it's also better for your heart. Gaining or losing a lot of weight really quickly can be a, a big strain on the heart.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 8:26

And you know what they say? You've gotta listen to your heart when it's calling for you. There's nothing else you can do.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 8:33

Do they say that

Protein Deficient Vegan: 8:34

it's a song?

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 8:35

Okay, so now we know kind of what the body does with the calories. We, we know how to pick the amount of calories you wanna try to eat. So how do you actually track this and put this into action? So first things first, you will see calories burned on fitness trackers and exercise equipment and some stuff like that. And that tends to be kinda one of the first things you wanna think about when you start thinking about calories.'cause you're like, oh, I got on the elliptical today and it says I burned 600 calories. So those are usually pretty wildly inaccurate. Even on the, like the high tech fitness watches and stuff you wear, they're just, they're not very good. So you can use those as like trending your effort. So if it says you burn 500 calories one day doing a 30 minute run, and then the next day you did another 30 minute run, you only burned 200 calories. You can kind of know maybe you didn't run as hard. But I definitely wouldn't use any of those calorie outputs for anything related to. Deciding how much you're going to eat. It's just not accurate enough for that.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 9:34

Oh, also, if you happen to have your fitness tracker hooked up to MyFitnessPal and maybe some of the other food trackers, I'm not sure there is a setting where it's gonna try to give you back the calories that you quote, unquote burned for exercise. You definitely wanna turn this feature off because it will mess you all up.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 9:54

Yeah, definitely. You might

Protein Deficient Vegan: 9:55

end up gaining weight.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 9:56

Yeah, another calorie tracking app that might be good and is especially good for a beginner. Just getting into the idea of calories and all this TDEE stuff is called Macro Factor. Basically what it's gonna do, so we told you that the TDEE calculators are just kind of a ballpark. It needs to be adjusted for your body. Well, macro factor kind of does that automatically. They have an automatic diet coach. So basically what happens here is you weigh yourself, you know, a couple times a week. As you go through your process, you put in your calories every day, and then it basically automatically calculates for your body and your exact real results, what you need, your surplus or deficit to be, to continue to gain or lose weight. So this is actually one of the most accurate ways to do it. It is kind of a little tedious 'cause you have to weigh in con consistently and you have to put in your calories every day, or the calculation has a little bit of a hard time. But those are things you should really be doing anyway, especially in the beginning. So I think it is really good for understanding what your true TDEE is and then you know, you can go from there.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 10:59

Is that one free.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 11:00

No, it is not free.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 11:02

Sad.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 11:02

Yeah, I don't know. I don't think it's very expensive, but it's definitely not free. So also another tip on this with the, the macro factor thing, it makes it automatic, but even if you're not using macro factor, you do want to be weighing in pretty often. So we recommend, you know, weigh in at least probably two to three times a week. I like to weigh in every day. Another important thing is to do it at a consistent time. The most consistent time you can probably do it is. In the morning first thing after you go to the bathroom. That way you weigh about the same as far as water fluctuations and things like that from day to day

Protein Deficient Vegan: 11:34

and do it before you take a shower.'cause if you're a girl it will add weight.'cause you'll hold water in your hair and you want that extra 0.5 pounds.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 11:42

I never thought of that. Yeah, that's interesting point.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 11:45

It's really important.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 11:46

Yeah,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 11:47

yeah,

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 11:47

yeah. So weigh yourself, uh, every day. Make sure, and you can take like the average throughout the week instead of just looking at each day individually. Take the average of your weight throughout the week and then watch that over a couple of weeks. And if you were targeting to gain a pound a week, you can look over a two week average and see, was I averaging a pound a week? Do I need to increase calories? Do I need to decrease calories? And then you can just kind of keep doing that on a continuous basis. And then also remember, as you gain or lose weight, your caloric needs and your TDEE will actually change. So if you go and lose 50 pounds, your TDEE is gonna be lower than it was, you know, when you first started. So you're gonna have to adjust your calories anyway.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 12:26

So I think what you're saying is the lesson here is use T-D-E-E-E-E as your starting guesstimation, right? And then you're going to modify that based on what you're actually tracking for your weight each week,

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 12:39

right? Yeah. Well, we see a lot of people go and use the calculator. Yeah. And they'll say, this is my deficit. And then they'll try it for like six weeks and they'll say, yeah, don't do that. I'm not losing weight. This is my deficit. Well, what's actually happening there is you're not really in a deficit. The calculator was maybe just more off for you, and you never really went back and adjusted that for yourself.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 12:57

Yeah. So check and verify it.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 12:59

Yep. So that's really all you need to do to put some of this stuff into action. And then next week we'll talk more about like macronutrients and maybe some other nutrition type things. Yeah. Okay, so now we wanna jump into the recipe roundup, which is always pretty exciting 'cause we get to remember all the delicious food we ate while we were trying to make these fruitcakes.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 13:16

All the good times. Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 13:17

All right. You wanna talk about the first one here?

Protein Deficient Vegan: 13:19

We made loaded sweet potato fries. They were really good, I thought.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 13:23

Yeah, I thought so too.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 13:24

It had as a tofu cheese sauce.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 13:27

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 13:27

Which is actually quite delicious.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 13:29

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 13:29

And we even ate it on tortilla chips. And that was pretty exciting.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 13:33

Yeah, I've had loaded fries a lot. I think this might've been the first time I had loaded sweet potato fries and it was actually really good.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 13:37

Yeah, it adds like a little extra sweetness.'cause you know, I guess they're sweet potatoes.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 13:42

That does make sense.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 13:43

Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 13:43

Next, we made a peanut butter chocolate protein cheesecake.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 13:46

Oh. Oh my God, this was so good.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 13:49

Yeah,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 13:50

I don't,

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 13:51

I think we should just make these every week. Actually,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 13:53

I think we should make them multiple times a week. I think actually this is all I'm going to eat for the rest of my life.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 13:59

Yeah. Yeah. 41% protein, so you probably could eat it the rest of your life and hit your protein goals just off this cheesecake.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 14:06

If you're gonna make anything we're talking about. It needs to be this.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 14:10

Yeah. It's pretty intense. In a good way.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 14:12

Yeah, it's just, it's really good.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 14:14

Also another cheesecake slash pie. We had a peppermint chocolate cheesecake.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 14:18

I really like that one. You don't like peppermint and chocolate, but I thought it tasted fantastic. It

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 14:23

was definitely very pepperminty. I can appreciate the mintiness.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 14:26

Yes.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 14:28

That one is 36% protein.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 14:30

Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 14:30

Next we had some gingerbread cookies. 29% protein cookies. Hard to go wrong there.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 14:35

Yeah, we used. TVP again 'cause it's magic Works great. And these were really chewy.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 14:43

Yeah, they were.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 14:44

Which I know you like that

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 14:45

they were soft. We also had some stuffed mushrooms. Those, these were super good. It's been a long time since I've had any stuffed mushrooms. I kind of forgot what they were like, but I'm still pretty sure this is the best version of it that I've ever had.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 14:57

Yeah, they're really easy to make too. You just like, basically you just put TVP and a little bit of like super finely chopped mushrooms and some Oh, like. Flax egg and some spices, and then you shove 'em in the mushroom and then you cook 'em for like 20 minutes and they're perfect.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 15:14

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 15:14

Oh, and like a little bit of vegan parm.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 15:16

Yeah, and they're, they're bite sized. They're just awesome. Oh, they're

Protein Deficient Vegan: 15:19

so good. Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 15:20

I didn't know there was a like cut mushroom in the mushroom.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 15:23

Yeah, that's, it has the moisture. That's how it gets moisture. Oh, speaking of moisture with TVP, just so everyone knows, when we're baking with TVP, we are not rehydrating the TVP. Oh yeah. Like these are super easy recipes. You just mix and dry TVP.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 15:36

Yeah. We've gotten that question a few times.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 15:37

Yeah. Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 15:39

Which makes sense.'cause I think people just aren't used to baking with TVP in general. Yeah. So this is a lot of new territory.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 15:45

Everyone's used to adding the water. We do not add the water to the TVP on the baked goods. Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 15:49

Yeah. Cool. Next, we had some fake bacon bit. Scallop potatoes.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 15:54

Dude, those were fucking good.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 15:56

Yeah, these were the fancy ones, right? Where you stand them up.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 15:59

Yeah, so that didn't really go super well. Standing up potatoes on their, their edge, that's not super fun, so probably won't do that. Again, they tasted great though.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 16:09

Yep. They were great. 30% protein, also, garlic, mushroom, Alfredo, 35% protein.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 16:15

That was good.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 16:15

If you like pasta, this one is definitely a good way to go. Really high protein pasta.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 16:19

Super easy to make.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 16:20

Yeah. We've also got three other recipes that aren't quite posted yet. They're still work in progress, but they will be up the way before the next podcast, so we're just gonna talk about 'em here. We got a bacon, mac, and cheese.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 16:30

Yes. That was so good. I took it for lunch a couple days.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 16:33

And what do we use for the bacon on that?

Protein Deficient Vegan: 16:35

It was TVP and actually I was eating it at work and this one guy was like, wow, bacon, mac and cheese. That's awesome. And I was like, it's vegan. And he was like, uh,

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 16:46

it's still awesome. Right? Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 16:48

Got 'em.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 16:50

Yeah. It's always weird in those situations'cause you wanna be like, try it, but also you don't wanna give 'em part of your lunch or anything weird. So no,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 16:55

I can't give up my lunch.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 16:56

Yeah. So I don't know. Just give 'em the recipe. Right.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 16:59

I need that food. They don't bring any vegan food to training.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 17:02

Also, another one coming up is a, a really awesome crab rangoon. Oh,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 17:07

it's so good.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 17:08

Yeah. I, I, I don't

Protein Deficient Vegan: 17:09

understand it. I

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 17:09

was really surprised at how much this actually tasted, like crab rangoon. I wasn't expecting that, and it was really, really awesome.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 17:17

Yeah, so it's a cold dip, but it's mostly made out of tofu and I think it came out to like 50% protein. Yeah,

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 17:22

it's a lot of protein.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 17:23

It's, but it's really good. It's like the perfect balance of a bunch of flavors. It's, I think it tastes like crab rangoon, but obviously I haven't had crab ring goon since I was 12, so this is a faint memory.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 17:35

Yeah, I mean it's, it's definitely got that like signature flavor. I'm not exactly sure how you did that,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 17:41

but wish to shi sauce or wish, wish wor your sure wor

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 17:45

I think it depends on where you're wor. Let's call it

Protein Deficient Vegan: 17:48

sy.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 17:48

Wooy wishy sauce. Yeah,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 17:49

it's got wishy sauce guys. And green onions.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 17:54

All right, and the last one we got calling up, uh, coming up is a holiday cheese dip.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 17:58

That one's really good too.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 17:59

Yeah,

Protein Deficient Vegan: 18:00

that one was, so it's a tofu cream cheese with craisins sunflower seeds and green onions. Yeah. And it mixes together and is kind of perfect. You just eat it on crackers.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 18:09

Yeah, it's really good. The green onion really gives it a really nice flavor. Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 18:13

And it gets even better just sitting in the fridge. Yeah. I feel like it was even better on day two.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 18:17

Yeah.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 18:17

Three.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 18:18

Yep.

Protein Deficient Vegan: 18:19

Yeah. If it lasts that long. Because you'll eat it,

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 18:22

right?

Protein Deficient Vegan: 18:23

Yeah.

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 18:24

All right. I think that's it for this week. Next week, like I said, we'll be coming back with some more of the fundamental series, talking about macronutrients, probably some micronutrients, talk a little bit about fiber and probably some other nutrition things just to. Get you started out. So good luck with the TDEE calculations and trying to figure out what you wanna do with your calories. Let us know if

Protein Deficient Vegan: 18:44

you have questions. Yeah, as

Muscle Deficient Vegan: 18:45

always, hit us up if you have any questions. You can email podcast@deficientvegans.com or go to the website and leave a comment or go to our social medias and leave a comment or even send a direct message. Um, all that stuff works and you can see links for all of the places you can find us in the show notes. So I think that's it. You wanna say, bye bye. Bye everybody.